Why Am I Like This?!
We are a therapist and a psychiatric nurse practitioner and we want to share a simplified view of these complex concepts that are often misunderstood, avoided, and even feared.
This is a podcast about being human, adapting to life, and learning from our unique experience.
We try to provide the answers to question: Why am I like this?
Why Am I Like This?!
Why Am I So Serious?!
Join us for an engaging exploration of why so many of us carry the weight of seriousness without realizing its impact on our lives. In our latest episode, we dive deep into the reasons behind our reluctance to laugh, unraveling how childhood experiences shape our perceptions of humor. Gain insights into the critical role laughter plays not just in enhancing our mood but also in promoting connections, healing, and overall well-being.
We tackle the barriers that prevent us from embracing humor, including anxiety, societal expectations, and deep-seated fears of vulnerability. Equipped with practical strategies, we guide you on how to invite laughter back into your daily life—whether it's through funny videos, light-hearted games, or simply learning to be silly again. Discover how mindfulness practices can facilitate this journey, assisting you in letting go of the need to take everything so seriously.
This episode is not just about understanding but about fostering resilience and joy in the face of life's challenges. Will you join us in recognizing that it's perfectly okay to find moments of laughter amidst the chaos? Tune in, and let's rediscover the lighter side of life together! Don’t forget to subscribe, share your thoughts, and connect with us afterward!
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Hello, Welcome to. Why Am I Like this? It's a podcast for those who didn't get enough hugs as a child. I'm Laura Wood and I'm a trauma therapist.
Michaela:And I'm Michaela Beaver. I'm a psychiatric nurse practitioner.
Laura:So, Michaela, why are we doing this podcast?
Michaela:I am so glad you asked. We want to help you understand yourself a bit better how the things that you learned about yourself and the world and childhood are still affecting you today. We want to figure out why are we like this those?
Laura:random things about ourselves that we might wonder about.
Michaela:Like why am I so jumpy? Why am I so anxious? Why do I take everything personally? Why are my thoughts so negative? Why do I feel like I have to fix everything all the time?
Laura:Yes, and today we are talking about being serious people. Why are we so serious all the time? And we're going to try to answer the following question why can't I see the lighter side of things? Why is laughing good for me and how to not take yourself so seriously? So let's get into it. Why are we so serious?
Michaela:Yeah, that's such a good question. I think that, again, there's always multiple reasons for why we're like this. Um, but I think of, I think of perfectionism. I think that if we can like, maintain this carefully curated version of ourselves, that people won't people won't see our flaws.
Laura:Yeah, like I don't want to be judged. I don't want to be, you know, seen as imperfect or you know, I want to be taken seriously, I want to be respected, I want to be seen as like I'm not messing anything up ever.
Michaela:Yeah, like maybe I'm, maybe I would think I'm not smart enough, or people would think I'm not smart if I made a joke.
Laura:Or I think fear and like hypervigilance can make us seem really serious, like we're not present. And so if we're constantly walking around afraid of somebody seeing us like mess up, and we're just like super diligent about the way that we behave all the time, we can just come off as really serious and like stoic and like not really can just come off as really serious and like stoic and like not really we're not loose, we're not like going with the flow, we're like so hypervigilant, trying to be a certain way all the time.
Michaela:Yeah, for sure. Well, I think that you know, in our busy lives and we're always trying to get ahead we are spending more and more time in that fight or flight response, and so it can, you know, if we do laugh and we do joke, that actually helps to get us more into that parasympathetic nervous system, you know, and get us out of that fight or flight. And so it can be really hard if we're, you know, trying to work really hard at you, hard at doing all these things, it can be hard to let down that guard sometimes.
Laura:Yeah, if I feel like I have to do everything right all the time and I'm busy thinking ahead and planning for what's next, what's the? You know I could be vulnerable. I could be seen, as you know, not doing something right or not taking something seriously or not paying enough attention or, you know, somebody might judge me in that way.
Michaela:Well, and I think too, like, um, when we're with a group of people that maybe we don't trust completely, right, it's hard to let that guard down. And so where maybe we would normally, you know, make a funny joke or act a little bit silly, maybe we don't feel comfortable enough to be vulnerable in that situation, and so we might think that people are going to laugh at us or they're not going to like us if they see that real version of us.
Laura:Yeah, and you know, when we are honest and genuine and actually do show ourselves like, people tend to like us more. That's the reality. When we're like looking on the bright side or when we're, you know, letting ourselves kind of be a little silly or be easier to go through different things, be more flexible, we're actually showing that we're human beings and people appreciate that. At least I think so. I agree.
Michaela:I think that it's our own internal experience of of that and the fear of maybe the past, right Like if we, you know, were silly at one point and someone you know used it against us or, you know, maybe somebody didn't didn't like us for it. Or we feel like people don't really understand our funniness, right Like we try to make jokes and, you know, maybe they don't understand our humor, try to make jokes and, you know, maybe they don't understand our humor, and so we kind of learned that it's not safe to let people see that side of us and growing up, like, what was the vibe in your house, right?
Laura:Like I always check in with people about what was happening when they were kids. Were they allowed to be silly? Was silliness something that was appreciated in their house, or was silliness something that was, like, frowned upon? You know, sometimes adults like I can relate to this. As an adult, like I have a hard. I used to have a hard time like playing pretend with my kids. Like there's not really tea in that cup, like I'm not drinking anything, there's nothing there. It's hard for me to play pretend so like. So I could understand how adults maybe stifle silliness in children and kind of say, like don't act like that, like you're acting childish, right, when you think about being silly and think about making jokes or sometimes humor is assigned this label of childish and immaturity and so people don't want to be seen that way. As an adult, they think that adults are supposed to be serious all the time.
Michaela:Yeah Well, it's so funny, like you're talking about childhood. So my brother is so funny. I think he is he. He just he's very witty. Like he comes back with these like very like perfectly timed witty remarks and everybody laughs and it's hilarious. But I tend to be like super, super serious, like I'm not quick with those things, and so we grew up in the same exact household. I just think that we, you know, somewhere along the way, is he picked up, or he's always been really good at just like coming up with those things.
Laura:Yeah, and it has to be at least a place that was safe, to be fun and funny, Right? So in your household it sounds like it was okay to make jokes. Sometimes it was okay to laugh at, you know, things that are silly or funny, or you know when I think about when we make mistakes, or you know it's okay to laugh it off, it's okay to be like, oh, I can't believe. I just did that silly thing.
Laura:Like my son just texted me today about something that was. He was like asked me a question but he wasn't thinking it through and so he kind of already knew the answer. So once he asked me the question, he says I swear I'm not a failure. He was like just kidding, I know the answer, I figured it out Like don't worry, Cause it was something so common sense that he should have just known. And so he made a joke about it and I I replied back, you know, LOL, and it was. I laughed out loud when I saw the text, and so it's okay to make a mistake, it's okay to be silly, it's okay to be funny. That's the environment that I'm trying to create, and it sounds like that's the environment that you had when you were growing up.
Michaela:Yeah, definitely, I think that was definitely the case. Um, so why do you think that laughter can be good for us?
Laura:Laughter is contagious. It lightens the mood, it releases doesn't smiling in general like release, like happy hormones and like having just a like having a good laugh has therapeutic benefits. Like it actually can like remind us and put us in a place where we feel safe and we feel comfortable and we feel okay and things can be. Things can be okay again after a really hard time, like when we're all you know, when we're reminiscing about somebody that we've lost and we think about the funny moments with them. Like it feels lighter, it feels better, it just it releases feelings of wellbeing, of wellness and of of safety and connection, and so I think it's a really positive thing to be able to laugh.
Michaela:Yeah, I, I think it also. You know, you think about like the oxygen exchange that's happening when you're laughing really hard, and so you're you think about like the oxygen exchange happening when you're laughing really hard, and so you're you're getting an increase in oxygen to your, your muscles, to your heart, to your lungs, and you know you're, you're getting that boost of endorphins and I think that like there is even some level of like decrease in inflammation that can happen when we laugh, and so there's really good positive physical benefits that happen when we laugh and can reduce pain even.
Laura:Yeah, you know, when we laugh so hard that we cry right Like why is that happening? We're because our parasympathetic nervous system, like you mentioned earlier, it's really activating. So our parasympathetic nervous system counteracts that sympathetic activation of you know, fear and danger and you know the overstimulation of you know, when we're hypervigilant, that kind of thing. So our sympathetic nervous system activates when we're in danger and then when our sympathetic nervous system is active, it makes it kind of hard to be easy and calm. But our parasympathetic nervous system comes in to balance that out. So when we're laughing and we're getting that release and our parasympathetic nervous system comes in to balance that out. So when we're laughing and we're getting that release and our parasympathetic nervous system is coming online, it's really counteracting all of that. Those symptoms of overthinking or the symptoms of fear, the symptoms of worry, the symptoms of anxiety and even depression can be alleviated even depression are can be alleviated.
Michaela:Yeah, that's such a good point. I think that you know we talk a lot about different like grounding skills and breathing skills and stuff like that to help activate the parasympathetic nervous system. But you could just laugh. You could just laugh Something that's hilarious, like a funny cat video. My kids are obsessed with like wanting to go on YouTube and watch funny cat videos and they just laugh. Sometimes when I don't want them to watch TV they've had enough TV time We'll literally just pretend that we're watching funny cat videos and we'll like make up stories of the funny things that the cats are doing, just because they think it's hilarious. That's great.
Laura:I love that strategy. We can remember and even just thinking about it is kind of making us laugh. Right, when we see other people laughing, we start laughing. It's almost impossible to resist. You know, when we're watching funny videos and it's just like a quick thing, it just puts our puts us in a place that's outside of our own mind, it's outside of our own distress. It's such a good distraction. I use that as a coping mechanism with my clients. Often I'll say, like think of the funniest video that you've ever seen. Or like watch funny videos. Or you know, like star them, put them in a folder or something like that, so they're like in a playlist, so that you can pull them up whenever you need them. And those things will be available to you at any time and you can use them to get yourself out of a stuck mood.
Michaela:Yeah, that's a really good piece of advice and I think that that's something that you could easily go to if you're needing like, if you're needing a distraction. But I know that, like, some things are not always funny for everybody, right. So, you know, sometimes we, you know, have a hard time getting behind things and I think, for me, like just certain comedians or certain like shows, I'm like I just don't understand that humor, like it doesn't make sense in my brain.
Laura:I totally get that, because I hate adult cartoons so, like all cartoons made for adults, hate them. I don't think they're funny, I don't like them, it doesn't make me feel good. I just I don't know why I have this aversion to them, but there are so many people who think everything, like all of those cartoons are so funny Like the Simpsons, people love the symptoms, it's like a whole thing and I'm just like it's just not my deal. I can't get there, but that's okay. I can find other things that I think are funny.
Laura:You know there are a lot of comedians that I enjoy, that I think are great and that I think are hilarious and I could sit and watch and laugh for days. You know videos I love watching videos of like babies and animals together and like doing silly things, or like babies, like walking around, Cause like babies are so silly, they just are like they don't. They're just wobbly and and and curious and it's I think it's really funny. So I like to watch that kind of thing. Sometimes just smiling even if it's not a laughter, just smiling, can be enough to get you into a little bit better of a place so that you can find certain things funny I can think about when sometimes if I'm in a really bad mood, I don't want to laugh. I like actively am like I don't want to laugh, I don't want to think that's funny, Like cause I want to just brood and be mad and like be unhappy and be grumpy right now, Um is that why people always go?
Michaela:don't laugh.
Laura:Yes, and it's so annoying, right, but it works. Like you have to be okay with what works and we have to be accountable to our own self and like recognize that being in a broody, sad, grumpy mood is okay, but it's not necessary and so we can make a change and get out of that. And you know, we don't have to sit and like just be miserable because something miserable is happening. It doesn't discredit or disrespect the bad thing that's happening. If you change your mood and change your mindset, disrespect the bad thing that's happening if you change your mood and change your mindset.
Michaela:Sure, I know, if you want to laugh, you should play the game telestrations. Okay, I've never played it. Okay. So it's like telephone, right, but it's only like. But it's like you draw pictures and then, like, somebody else will write the word and then the next person draws the pictures and, as you can imagine, if people are not great at drawing or spelling in our family, apparently it is the most hilarious thing and you laugh so hard and you get social connection when you do those kinds of things. So like trying to find some kind of game or thing that is hilarious, like catchphrase sometimes, like that can be really funny. So you find things like that. You can actually improve your social connection with people and laugh at the same time and let the stress of the week, you know, just relax off of you and you can feel a whole lot brighter just from doing some of those things.
Laura:Laughing together and smiling together actually increases your oxytocin bonding hormone too. So, like as a family, you're experiencing that bond together and it's co-regulating. It's very much a community event, a social engagement event to be able to release and relax with people that you love and that you're connected to. Just like fosters that bond. It makes it so much stronger and what wires together fires together. So when you are laughing and having a great time and then you remember that thing, like, do you ever just laugh out of nowhere because of a memory? Oh for sure, I do it all the time like I'll think of something and I'll just start laughing and then I'm like, why like? And then somebody might be like, why are you laughing? And then it's because I'm remembering something that was funny.
Michaela:It's not even something funny right now. It can be hard to you know. Let go of that control that we feel like we need or that we have. You know it's out. Try. Try one of these suggestions and see what happens. See if you can let laughter find something that you find funny, cause what's funny to us may not be funny to you. But you know, if you can find that thing that makes you laugh, you might feel like you can get out of that stuck place Absolutely.
Laura:And, you know, another reason why people maybe take themselves seriously is that control that you mentioned and the sense of. I think a sense of like resentment can come up from people who are taking that or like who are like super serious. I think they can resent people who are not serious and who, like, make jokes about things because it makes them feel like no one's hearing them, like makes them feel misunderstood, and so that's like, I think, sometimes why people get mad when people make jokes out of things that are like serious topics. You know, sometimes that happens where we try to make light of things that are like serious topics. You know, sometimes that happens where we try to make light of something that's not light and you know it upsets people and offends them. Um, because it's like you're not understanding me and my pain, right.
Michaela:Well, and I think too, you're just like you said earlier, like you, you're, you're in that mood and you're so overwhelmed with everything. And then someone, just like you said earlier, like you, you're, you're in that mood and you're so overwhelmed with everything, and then someone just like says something funny and it's like you never take, like they just never take anything seriously, Like you know, and it just really can be bothersome. I mean, I feel like, um, I'm way more serious and my husband is just like kind of a joking funny guy and sometimes he can do that, and it's like, oh, I just can't with you right now. I'm like you just don't understand, this is not funny.
Laura:Yeah, it can feel like a misattunement when we're being serious. I think that there's like a million reasons why this can happen. But sometimes, when we've been, when we've been hurt before and we have this deep pain in ourselves that that doesn't get to the surface or that hasn't been worked out, you know, that pain can kind of tell us like the world is not an okay place. Nothing is funny, nothing is good, everything has to be serious, everything has to be. You know, I have to just work really hard. I'm I'm, you know everything is hard for me.
Laura:I'm just, you know I'm never gonna get a catch a break, like I can't catch a break, like those kinds of thoughts can come to mind when we're in a serious place, when we're feeling like, when we're a person who is really struggling with depression or struggling with, you know just life circumstances that are out of their control. I think those negative thoughts can make it hard to see the bright side. That can. They can make it hard to relief, like to release that, that feeling and just let go and laugh and experience joy.
Michaela:Well, I think that you really hit hit that one right on. So you said that they're trying to control things Basically. You're trying to control things Basically. You're trying to control things that are outside of your control, Right Time, you know, and that can make us feel like everything is really serious, Like we're going to take everything really serious in that because it's, because it feels so, out of our control and overwhelming.
Laura:And if we've been hurt or if we've experienced trauma, or if we've experienced trauma or if we've experienced danger, we might believe like, hey, this is serious, everything is serious, right, because if we don't take it seriously, we could get hurt, we could be in danger, we could. You know that hypervigilance again, that nervous, that sympathetic nervous system, activation of the fight or flight mechanism, that is like really running our, our strategies all the time.
Michaela:Well, and what I think is really interesting is is that people with that high functioning anxiety, they're in this state all the time and it feels really normal. It doesn't feel like they're like you're anxious or like you're really worried about something, but you are, and so it's just become your new normal and you might. The thing you might notice is that it is hard for you to laugh or or or take things. You know, lighter or, you know, laugh things off or whatever, and so everything feels really hard.
Laura:Mm-hmm hard and it feels really heavy and it feels really alone and isolating, which is why laughter is the antidote to that in a lot of ways, right, because of that social engagement and because of the connection that comes from laughing and you know I always say that we have to have a connection with ourself and so sometimes just like watching something funny, even if we're alone, and laughing and experiencing joy by ourselves, like in a safe space where we don't have to feel vulnerable, can be a good way to start, like healing. It can be a good way to start not taking yourself so seriously.
Michaela:Yeah, um, the other thing that I had thought about here was like, um, you know, specifically surrounding like kids is like us as adults taking everything seriously that they do, because, um, the outcome, if we don't, is that they're going to be a terrible human being, they're going to be a delinquent, they're going to never be successful, and so we need to teach these lessons so that they can be good human beings.
Laura:That makes so much sense. If, as a kid, I was taught that everything has to be taken super seriously, otherwise something really bad will happen, I am thinking that I wouldn't have, you know, the freedom or the safety to be silly or to laugh things off or to see the humor in something even as like a coping mechanism. Right, because I think a lot of people use humor as a coping mechanism, which can be to an unhealthy degree. We can all coping mechanisms can be used to an unhealthy degree. But when we don't overuse it and we're just using it to say to kind of see things in an okay space and like take, like see the light, the lighter side of things, like that can be really effective and helpful. But if my whole life I've been taught that like life is serious, everything is serious, like we have to be serious all the time, you know that would probably prevent me from from believing that things can be funny as an adult an adult.
Michaela:Well, and I think that, as a parent, if something you know, you know spilled water, you know it doesn't have to be the end of the world and we can make jokes out of even hard things and we can teach lessons even through humor. You know I I talk to kids about. You know when they're being bullied like, can you make a joke out of what they're doing? Right, because we, we don't have to take everything seriously. And if we do in certain moments, then if we can flip it into being something funny, then that takes the power away from certain situations or it makes it so that you can teach a lesson and the kid doesn't have to feel, you know, as overwhelmed with guilt and shame in that moment. And so not everything has to be like, not every like consequence or every lesson that we teach has to be a negative one.
Laura:Yeah, I agree with that. I think that's really important. As we're interacting with our kids or with young people or with anyone right, Like when we're offering correction, we need to be coming from like a with the heart of a teacher, with a like with a, as a lighthearted sort of like hey, that happened, Whoopsie daisy, and this is okay. You know, instead of coming down on somebody like you should have known, or you did this messed up, and you know, that's really stifling instead of uplifting.
Michaela:Yeah, well, I think that one of the things that's really hard as a parent and I struggle with this too is like our expectations of our kids grow and grow and grow, and sometimes our expectations grow outside of the what is actually normal for a kid of that age, and so once they've shown that they can do something, and they can do it, well, that doesn't mean that they're proficient at it, doesn't mean that they're always going to be able to do that, doesn't mean they're going to not forget sometimes, and so you know. But the expectation is oh, you did it, and now I know you can do it.
Laura:And so, therefore, you should always be able to do it, and I don't know what just happened here. Yeah, we call that the expectation gap is the gap between what we expect is and what's actually possible, right, like, like you said, just because we can demonstrate proficiency in a moment doesn't mean we can demonstrate it consistently without support and reminder. Like we still need those training wheels. Like, even when you have training wheels on your bike, there's a time because the training wheels don't fully, they're not as deep as the actual wheel, so there are moments where you can ride your bike and balance, even with those training wheels on. That doesn't mean you can consistently do it. It's just practice, it's getting started. You still need support and you still need those that backup. It's like bumpers and bowling. Like, even if you don't hit the bumpers, you know every single time if, if six out of 10 times you do hit them, like that, those four times demonstrate that you're practicing and that you're getting better, but that you're not yet fully consistently able to do it every time.
Michaela:Oh, I love that. That's such a good analogy. So, yeah, I mean, I think that that's a huge thing and I think it can be really hard, because we so desperately are ready for things to get easier. Parenting is so hard and relationships in general are just really challenging. You know, and I think that you know, when we can see glimmers of hope, we want, we really want that to stay. We don't want to go backwards.
Laura:No, we don't want to go backwards. But it's important to know too, when I think about my clients and I think they say things like a setback or whatever we're never going back, we're never going backwards. Just because on the fifth time I hit those bumpers doesn't mean that on the sixth time I won't like or I can't like, I can't do it without it, like we're moving forward all the time. There is no such thing as going backwards, there is no such thing as back at square one. We're always learning and growing and moving forward, and so that's true with ourselves, that's true with our relationships.
Laura:Like you know, even if you guys are working on something, like in an adult relationship, for example, if we're working on something and you know that person doesn't, doesn't do the thing that you've been saying is going to happen that next time, that doesn't mean you're back at square one. It just means that one time it didn't happen, but the next time it can. And so every new opportunity is an opportunity to sort of revert back to our default mechanism of taking ourselves seriously. Like it's okay that we use that default. That time we need to manually go in and we're making an update, right, so the default is going to come up, that's okay. It just means that we weren't maybe as mindful in that moment as we could be in the next moment.
Laura:Yeah, that's such a good way of seeing it. I think mindfulness, too, is a way to start to see the lighter side and not take yourself so seriously, like recognizing that you're a person with flaws and recognizing that you're not perfect. You know, there's a lot of that in mindfulness is that nobody's perfect, nothing's perfect. We don't have control over certain things. We don't have the ability to change what we can't change. We only can, you know, we can only really respond and react and and operate from a place within. We can't control everything on the outside in.
Michaela:We can't control everything on the outside. I wonder, you know, maybe that's a skill that might be helpful to help people be able to feel like they can let that down. And laugh is like, maybe, if you can't get into something, maybe that is a sign that maybe you need to do some mindfulness, or you need to do some grounding so that you can get into the rest and digest and activate that parasympathetic nervous system so that maybe you can laugh.
Laura:Yeah, I think mindfulness is always a great place to start, you know. The next place, I think, is to practice and give yourself grace. Like, practice over and over. Like try to find something funny in every day. Try to find something you know, a glimmer of hope or a glimmer of brightness. Like, even in the worst possible situations, there's always something that you can find, whether it's a memory of something else or you know something like some funny video or you know a playlist of things that you've saved over time. But like, you can always maybe find a moment in the day to laugh or to smile and just practice that as many times a day as you can. That's a good idea.
Michaela:What else can you think of to help people continue to, you know, see things in a less serious way. Anything else you can think of?
Laura:I was thinking about a strengths inventory, like making a note of all the things that you find good about yourself, like all the skills that you have, all the like. Take a strengths inventory, a skills inventory things that you're good at, things that make you feel good about yourself. Because when we are taking ourselves too seriously, a lot of the time we're overcompensating for our confidence, Like we're, you know, afraid that people are going to see our flaws, and that's because our flaws are so prominent in our mind that we're maybe need to balance those out with some strength.
Michaela:That's a good idea. I guess I hadn't really thought about like this being a sign of like low self-esteem, but yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Like we're thinking all these negative things in our head all the time and we are struggling to balance out some of those negative thoughts. So trying to come up with like more healthier, positive coping skills or positive thinking, and maybe even like identifying our triggers and recognizing like what those negative thoughts are, so that we can maybe have a mantra that we, you know, use every time that one thing comes up. So, like you know, I, um, I'm a, I'm a good friend, or I, you know, I'm doing my best, or whatever.
Laura:I love that. I think challenging those thoughts, having a positive opposite, something that we can use to balance out that narrative and counter that narrative in our mind that you know we're not doing good or that people are going to see us at their worst, like reminding yourself that you do have a best and that you can be at your best and people can recognize that, and that people aren't always looking for flaws. Sure yeah that's true.
Michaela:I also, like you know, one of the things that you talked about before is that would work here as well is what's the worst thing that could happen right, playing that, playing that. What's the worst thing that could happen? Like, if I go into this social setting and I let people see the like goofy, funny side of me, like what's the worst thing that could happen?
Laura:I love that, the worst case scenario game. It's one of my favorites. I think that's a good one, you know. So we've got mindfulness practice, finding moments to laugh, finding moments to smile, seeing just a glimmer every day, making a list of all the things that you're proud of, all the things that you find that you're good at, the things that make you feel good about yourself and that you feel strong in, and then adding to that list right, like, this isn't static, this grows over time, so it's going to get longer and longer the more you do it. And then playing that worst case scenario game, challenging those negative thoughts with, like, well, that's not really true, is it? Because the worst case scenario is probably not that likely. So I think those are all really good skills.
Laura:To not take yourself so seriously. I love that. Yeah, what a good place to leave it today. Yeah, and so I really appreciate your insights and your help on this not taking us so seriously and thank you for listening to why Am I Like this? If you like our show, please leave us a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform, follow the show and share it with your friends. This episode was written and produced by me, Laura Wood and Michaela Beaver. Our theme song is Making Ends Meet by Thick as Thieves, and a special thanks to Benavieri Counseling and Coaching and Active Healing Psychiatric Services for sponsoring our show.
