Normal People With Normal Problems

We get personal about what it feels like to be sick, stressed, and dysregulated while still believing we have to keep performing. We unpack how the nervous system shapes our reactions and how self-compassion, repair, and a few practical tools can help us act more like the people we want to be. 
• the belief that being sick means being weak or lazy 
• naming the “story we’re telling ourselves” and how meaning-making drives shame 
• apologising to get ahead of judgment and why it backfires 
• parenting without making kids responsible for our regulation 
• dissociation as a coping skill and when it helps or harms 
• co-regulation basics like inviting instead of demanding and using consistent language 
• the window of tolerance and why capacity drops under stress 
• using simple body tools to come back into regulation 
• recognising body-first reactions like flushing or gut responses 
• people pleasing, rumination, and the “ice cream” overthinking spiral 
• balancing repair with over-apologising and avoiding 
• giving ourselves grace when we fall out of our values 
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Laura's Free Course on Emotional Development and Regulation:
https://benavieri.com/neuroception-sign-up/

This show is sponsored by: 

Core Self 

www.coreself.org

Benavieri Counseling & Coaching
www.benavieri.com

Active Healing Psychiatric Services
www.activehealingpsych.com

Transcript

Laura 0:02

Hello and welcome to Why Am I Like This, the podcast for those who didn't get enough hugs as a child. I'm Laura Wood and I'm a trauma therapist. And I'm Michaela Beaver, a psychiatric nurse practitioner.

Michaela 0:16

So, Michaela, why are we doing this podcast? I'm so glad you asked. We all have patterns that don't fully understand. Ways we react, think, and feel that seem to show up no matter how hard we try to change them. On this podcast, we explore how our past experiences, relationships, and nervous systems state who we are today. Together, we ask the questions we've all wondered about at some point. Why am I like this? And more importantly, how can we understand ourselves a little more compassion?

Laura 0:53

Yes, today, we're talking about we're normal people with normal problems. And we're gonna get into some life stuff that comes up and it's hard. And this is gonna be this is gonna get a little personal. We're gonna talk about our own stuff and um kind of share what it's like to just be a human. So what's coming up for you? What's going on with Shayla?

Michaela 1:16

Well, it has been a week. I feel like last time we did the podcast, I was sick, and I still feel like I have not gotten over whatever it was that um I had. Um, so just finishing some antibiotics, and you know, I think that like one of the things that kind of comes up for me with that is like um that I'm not allowed to be sick. You know, I don't I don't have to I don't have time to stop. I don't have time to take care of myself. I have a million other people and things to take care of, and like it feels really hard to like think of like what would it be like if I actually gave myself space to just like slow down?

Laura 2:02

I think that's a really good question. I can totally relate. I don't like to be sick. I say things like I never get sick. Um I'm that guy. I'm like, I'm not sick, I'm never sick, like that's not a thing that happens to me. Um, I wonder, like as I'm saying that and as you're telling me, like, I'm wondering what do you feel like it says about you if you are sick?

unknown 2:25

Right?

Laura 2:25

Like what meaning are you doing?

Michaela 2:26

Oh yeah, like probably that I'm lazy and like you know, something that like that, I guess, you know, or like if nobody else, if I don't do it, no one else can. Right? It's not gonna get done.

Laura 2:43

Yeah, for sure. Like you can't rely on other people or and which none of that's true, by the way. Right, right. It's not, it's our narrative, right? Like um, Brene Brown says the story that we're telling ourselves.

Michaela 2:55

Yeah, exactly.

Laura 2:56

Like what's the story you're telling yourself about this? And I love that question in therapy too, like as a meaning-making question. Like, I asked this a thousand times a day, like, what does that mean about you? Right. And so for me, when I think of getting sick, like for me, it means I'm weak. Like, I'm not strong. Like, I need like my immune system is like a flex for me. I'm like, I'm still, I never get sick. That like somehow that says something good about me. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it like makes me special when like it doesn't. I do get sick. That's a total lie. Like I'm lying to myself, I'm not being honest, I'm not being connected to my body and to my, you know what I mean? Like to my self-care. Like it's like that's not a flex.

Michaela 3:40

Right. Well, and I almost feel like, you know, um, even when I'm like meeting with clients, I have to be like, oh, I'm so sorry. Like, I, you know, I have to like call it out. Cause like if I it's like that whole idea, like if if I say it first, and then nobody can think anything bad about me, if I just like call it out, like the elephant in the room, like, yep, yep, this is happening.

Laura 4:02

Yeah, like I already know you don't need to say anything, like you don't need to think about it. I already am gonna tell you.

Michaela 4:07

I'm gonna um I'm gonna tell you guys for me, like if I'm it's like it's a bad behavior, like, oh, sorry, like I'm not allowed to be sick, but I'm so sorry.

Laura 4:16

Like, yeah, like I'm so sorry I coughed, like a normal human thing. Like I'm a normal person and I have a cough. Like, that's fine. I wonder if any of that, like I wonder if any of that comes from COVID. Like, is there collective trauma from like being afraid of sick people?

Michaela 4:33

Probably. Or being afraid of like what people might think of you if you're if you're like at work and sick, like, oh no, you're gonna like get me sick or whatever. But I also think that like when I was saying that I think I'm lazy, well, I think that like ties back to probably more childhood stuff. Sure. Then then like COVID, like I think it predates that for me, like thinking like about the fact that like I I almost failed seventh grade or like you know, um, like it didn't get my work done or did get didn't care about school. And so like that might have been something I thought about myself, like that I wasn't smart or that I wasn't good enough or something like that. I wonder.

Modeling Emotions For Our Kids

Laura 5:16

Yeah, I wonder about that. Like if people whose parents like make them go to school even when they're sick. Oh yeah. I wonder if they turn into people like me who are like who are like, I'm not sick, I'm fine when I'm clearly not fine, and I need to go to the doctor. Like I broke, oh, I broke my rib. And I didn't think I just acted like it was fine. Um, this literally happened like three weeks ago. What? How did you break your rib? I know my dog um is bad and she well, yeah, she's bad. She's a bad dog. And she was at the vet and she got scared, and she like lunged forward, and I was holding her leash, and she pulled me into the counter, you know, at the doctor's office, there's like the counter with the sink and everything. She pulls me into the counter. I fall so hard that I literally broke my rib. And um couldn't, I could hardly breathe for like two weeks, and it was so painful. And my therapist, my couple's therapist, my boyfriend, and my mom all were like, you need to go get an x-ray. Like, this is problematic. And I was just like, I'm fine. Like, I'm fine, it's probably not broken, like it's nothing. And so now I'll never know. Like, I'll never know. I mean, it hurts a little still, but like it's fine, it's not that bad. I'm doing it right now. Listen to me. I hear you. I hear you. Oh man, we're not allowed to be human. We're not allowed to be human. I feel like that as a mom sometimes, like with my kids, like um, I never want to, and I so I overcorrect. I never want to project that their feelings are like unacceptable to me, or project that like they need to be okay for me to be okay. Um, I never want them to feel like I'm not okay and I'm not stable because then that could like scare them or whatever. And so I feel like I have to like project this like perfect, regulate, like emotionally regulated, you know, like person to them, but then which is totally an overcorrection. You know, they're not learning how to deal with emotions that way, right?

Michaela 7:48

Man, I feel like my kids will be like, mom, I think you need to scream in this pillow right now, which is a healthier situation. Like they see it. I'm like, you're so right. Thanks for calling it out. I show them the example of me screaming in the pillow because that's what they connected with. And I'm like, all right, let's go. I feel better. Thank you.

Laura 8:12

No, you're so right. Like they need to be able to see, okay, you're not doing okay. You know, you're not doing okay. Something's wrong, and you need to address it instead of like dissociating and pretending like everything's fine, because that's apparently how I handle my emotions at home.

Michaela 8:31

I feel like it's tough because you know, I was just talking to a client about this the other day, and I was like, man, it really seems like you're maybe maybe having some dissociation. And it's like in their mind, that was bet that's better than you know their partner yelling, yelling and screaming at the kid. And I'm like, yeah, dissociation's a skill, right? It's his coping skill, right? Maybe there's not always perfect, there are times where it's helpful and needed. And maybe there are times where we can try not to do that instead, do something else.

Laura 9:06

Yeah. And the more I'm checked out or zoned out or whatever, or like hiding my emotions, the less access my kids are gonna have to like learn how to effectively deal with emotions, right? Because I'm basically prove I'm I'm modeling for them. Hey, emotions aren't okay. And we need to like minimize them at all costs. Like it's not okay to get upset. It's not okay to be unregulated, like, it's not okay to be dysregulated. That's what I'm I'm not saying that, but I'm doing that, right? Yeah.

Michaela 9:39

See, I think like the the hard thing for me is like I notice and I recognize when I'm doing it, maybe sometimes after the fact, but I'm trying to make my kids make me okay sometimes. And it's something that I realize I did with my first kid, and then I've done a really I've done a lot better job with my second. Um, but like, you know, it's like I've noticed that I'm just trying to make those big feelings go away as fast as possible, you know, and that's not always very helpful. It doesn't, it backfires most of the time. And so that's the hard part instead of just like acknowledging, like, hey, you're frustrated and you're not happy that you didn't get your way, but I'm here for you. Like, why is that not just like why do I have to like try to make it go away and like I'm gonna make you laugh or I'm gonna like you know, try to like just do something to make you feel better, versus like just being like, I'm sorry, you don't feel very happy with this choice. No, you can't play Minecraft all day.

Laura 10:47

You're five, like right, and you wouldn't want to have well, you might want to, but it wouldn't be good for you to have a mom who let you play Minecraft all day when you're five. That's what I said to him.

Michaela 10:58

I literally said, You deserve a mom. Love it. You deserve a mom that doesn't just just ignore you and let you play Minecraft all day. You deserve a mom who wants to go ride your bike and play play basketball. Like that's what you deserve. And I know that your hyper focus on Minecraft is what's making you frustrated, but like that's not what we're gonna do today.

Laura 11:20

That's like flesh kiss perfect response right there. I wish we had the capacity for that all the time.

Michaela 11:27

I know, but we don't, and that's because we're human, but sometimes like I judge an outing based off of like how effectively I parented and if I did a good job or not. And I feel like that's like when I actually do a better job almost is like when people are watching. It's like I can be prepared, I'm more prepared mentally to be like, oh, I'm gonna say all of the right things and like literally think like, oh, I wonder what that person thought about how I said that. I wonder if that made them think, you know, because they gave me a weird look, you know, like, but I feel like I almost do a better job when no one, when people are looking, and then when no one's looking, I feel like then, like, you know, you let your hair down and you're like, okay, I just screwed that up big time.

Laura 12:16

It's so funny. I that makes perfect sense, but like I'm the opposite, right? So like the fact that people are around dysregulates me enough to where I no longer have the capacity to do the right thing, and I end up like saying something I regret. Yeah.

Michaela 12:33

Which I think is most people. Mm-hmm.

unknown 12:35

Yeah.

Michaela 12:35

I think that's worried about being judged or something.

Laura 12:38

Yeah. We're worried about being judged, we're worried about things going wrong and like upsetting people. Like sometimes it's about like, I'm taking up space. I'm take like I see this all the time in the grocery store, right? Like a mom who's got a couple of kids in the cart, and the kid maybe like runs in front of me or like gets in my way or like is playing on the ground in front of the cereal that I'm trying to grab or whatever. And the mom's like, oh my god, like I'm so sorry. I can't, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Like just apologizing for like existing as a child, you know, as a person with a child, right? Like it's yeah, it's almost like we feel like we this obligation to make sure that our kids like don't disrupt society in any way. And I think that's how I always felt. My kids are older now. I don't really have the they don't play on the floor at the grocery store anymore. I hope not. I suppose I don't know what they do when I'm not around, but um they when they were little, I could totally, I totally had that insecurity of like, um, my kids are disruptive, they're bothering everyone. Um, and I remember like my mom, then my kids are little, like I don't think my kids listen to this, so it's fine. But like my mom like wouldn't let us go out to restaurants. We only ever celebrated like birthdays at home, we did dinners at home, we never went out. We always because like the kids would be disruptive. And then, like at the time, it made me feel really bad about myself, like as a parent, right? I don't think my mom listens either, so this is fine. Um, it made me feel really bad about myself. But um I realized now that that's her shit, right? Like she was gonna be dysregulated if they were acting up in the restaurant, and so she couldn't handle it. It's not that they couldn't handle it, it's that she couldn't handle it, right? You know, and that's that's okay. So, like she said that she that she set that boundary. She's like, I can't no, I can't go. You can't handle it. Yeah, it's a lot.

Michaela 14:41

You have to have like patience to bring your kids anywhere at that at young ages, you know. Yeah, but I still encourage parents to do it. I'm like, I think it's still good, and people aren't as mean as what you think. They're not thinking anything negative. At least when I see, you know, a kid like having a meltdown or whatever, I'm like, ah, been there, you know. Right, those are tough times. It's still tough. I mean, my kids are like very, very active, and when what one kid doesn't think of the other one does, and they're just they want to be all over the place, and going to the store with them is a lot because they want to touch everything, they want to look at everything, they want to throw things in the cart, and it's a lot. It is a lot, and like you're just they're they're kids, you just have to, you know, just know that like they're not it's not gonna be easy and it's not gonna be perfect. But I think like at home, it's tough like when they don't do what you want them to do, like for me at least. Like I'm in public, like I'm like, I'm ready for it. But like at home, it's like, hey, like it's time to do the next thing, it's time to move on, it's time to do these things. I think feel like those are bigger struggles for me. It's like trying to get someone with without using fear, right? Like without yelling and screaming and being being mean. And how do you get someone to move? How do you get someone? You can't control them. How do you get someone to do what you want them to do?

Window Of Tolerance Explained

A Donut Run Regulation Reset

Laura 16:16

Yeah, that's the key. That's the trick, the trickiest thing. Like I hear from parents all the time when I talk about like helping them co-regulate, right? Like the answer is that we have to help them be regulated. We have to invite instead of demand. We have to give choices when we can and not choices when it's not reasonable. Um, we have to use consistent language, we have to be transactional and not emotional, right? Like there's all these things. And then the parent will always come back to me and say, like, all right, what if we're about to be late? And they won't get their shoes on. I'm like, well, that's a tough one. Depends on what you're late for. Right. So um, it depends on what you're late for. If it's like an emergency, like truly, like I'm gonna lose my job if I don't go in today, like, or if I don't go in on time, like, which is like, and that has to be true, not just feel true. But if that's the case, then you pick up their shoes and you put them on. Put them on, and you just do it, and you get in the car, and you know, you have a meltdown or you freak out or whatever, and then you repair that later, right? Like there's times when the wheels fall off, and that's okay. Like I was teaching um over the weekend, and I was teaching my class about the window of tolerance. Yeah. And I was like, this is one of the most important things about like doing therapy is like recognizing the window of tolerance. Not only when you're in your window of tolerance, but when someone else is in their window of tolerance. And when we are not in our window, we tend not to do our best work. When we are in our window, we have more capacity to um use our full logical brain that has more access to our experiences, our training, our knowledge, et cetera. And so the window of tolerance is basically just a space within your nervous system, like a sort of imaginary uh this is an imaginary window where you have capacity to be um effective and be uh at your best. You still might make mistakes, you still might be upset, but it's tolerable, right? Like it's you're in a window of tolerance. Um, when you're out of your window, it's intolerable. And, you know, I was explaining this and I was like trying to portray what it's like to be out of your window. And I was talking about like my own stuff, right? And I'm and they were like, Yeah, you know, like that's this is a trauma response. And I was like, no, this is a human response. Like it's not not everything is a trauma response. Like it's a response to being a human. Like, and that's why you know, when we talk on this podcast all the time, like, why am I like this? We talk about what we learned in childhood because that's when we learned how to survive. We learned how to survive when we were little, and those responses are like normal human survival responses, right? Doesn't mean we're all, you know, totally traumatized. Some of us are, but that's not uh, you know, a hundred percent of us aren't just walking around, you know, with a ton of trauma.

Michaela 19:28

Right. And I think that that's where like the polyvagal theory, like uh just like the nervous system theory is so correct and so interesting. Okay, so scenario.

Speaker 2 19:42

Okay.

Michaela 19:43

So yesterday I decided my husband's sick, and I was like, I'm not just gonna sit at home all day, I'm gonna go do something. So packed up the car, went to this like park in Mesa that my kids love, had they hadn't been there forever. And I'm getting all the things and I'm getting in the car and I'm doing all doing whatever. And I told the kids that we're gonna go get donuts on the way, right? Special treat, mom day, it's gonna be great. Um, so we we start backing out, and my son goes, actually, I don't want donuts. And my response was like frustration, right? I'm like, what what do you mean you want you don't want donuts? Like who what kind of kid says no? I don't want donuts. Are you kidding me? And I started to get frustrated, and then I remembered a tool. I remember like put your tongue at the top of your mouth and like relax your jaw and then relax your body. And I did, and then I go, and I was like, I was like, I I'm sorry, I was frustrated. Like I I that was just a lot trying to get all the things ready to get out the door, and I just need a minute. And then I just was like, I'm going where I'm going, I'm doing what I'm doing. We got to the donut place, and of course, my my son goes, actually, I changed my mind. I do want a donut. Like, of course you do. So was I in my window of tolerance because I was able to use my skills, or was that outside of my window of tolerance, but I use my skills to get back in?

Laura 21:27

That's a really good question. I don't know if I 100% know the answer, but here's my thought process. So I believe that you were out of your window, you recognized it, which is possible to do when you're out of your window. You used your tools, and then it brought you back in your window. Right. Because when you're acting out, you're res you're basically your brain and body are saying, like, this is intolerable. I have to fix it at any cost.

Michaela 21:56

Right.

Laura 21:57

Right. And so like we ignore the consequences. Because we're not thinking long-term. We're not thinking about our long-term consequences. We're not thinking about like who we're hurting. We're not thinking about like the developmental impacts of this. Like, we're not thinking about whatever. We're not thinking about anything. And we can access though, if we get regulated, if we're regulated enough, like most of the time, you know, if we practice enough, then our brain will have a habit of like searching for tools. That's a survival skill now that you built. So what I believe is that you've trained your brain to recognize when you're out of your window of tolerance, and your brain pops up with a tool to support you, because you've done this a thousand times a day for years and years and years to try to regulate yourself and now created a neural pathway that is now on an automatic feedback loop. That's what I think. Yeah.

Michaela 22:52

I like that theory.

Laura 22:54

Yeah. And so, like when we're out of our window of tolerance and we can't even recognize that we're out, you know, that's when we run into real trouble. Yeah, we fall off the ladder. Mm-hmm. Exactly. And that happens to us. That happens to all of us. Like I was um debriefing the other day about something with um a leader in my uh colleague, and I like got dysregulated. And she was like, she's like, how's your regulation? She literally like called me out because I like I like knew it, but I didn't know it. And I was just, but I was like amped, right? Like as I was talking, I was kind of like, you know, like getting a little, getting a little amped up. She goes, How's your regulation? And I was like, Oh, right. No, I'm totally dysregulated. Like it, she called me out. When so I have this response now where if somebody else kind of calls me out, I I have a triggered response that gets me to like get back in. Um, I remember one time, uh, I might have even shared this before because I use it as an example all the time. One of my friends, I had gotten in a fight with my boyfriend and I felt bad because I said something mean, because I was out of my window or whatever. And then I was like, I don't know what to do. Like I'm the worst. Like he's gonna break up with me. Like I'm a horrible girlfriend, whatever. She says, You're not gonna die if this doesn't get resolved today. Cause I was like, now he's going on this trip and I'm not gonna be able to see him or whatever. She's like, You're not gonna die if this doesn't get resolved today. And I literally like in that moment was like, I relaxed. And I was like, oh, right. This is not an emergency. Like, this is not a life threat. This is difficult, it's not dangerous. This is uncomfortable, it's not threatening, right? Like it's um, is it problematic if my relationship ends? Like, yes, will I die? No. Um, is it likely that my relationship is gonna end because I made a snarky comment in a fight? Probably not. And if it is, it is what it is, right? So it's like kind of getting back to that space where you recognize that a threat isn't always a life threat, you can be uncomfortable and threatened without being in a survival response.

Michaela 25:12

Yeah, that makes so much sense. Yeah, it's tough when we feel as though like if somebody had called me out like that, I feel like that would have made me go into more fight or flight though, right? Because being called out is dangerous.

When The Body Reacts First

Laura 25:35

Okay, that makes sense. So, like I did feel a little embarrassed later, like because she's I a professional colleague. I respect her, like she was a leader in the she's a leader in the position like that I was in at that time. Like I was looking to her for like guidance and advice and support. And um, so like I felt a little embarrassed, you know, but a tolerable amount of embarrassed. And like I'm I'm it obviously affected me. I mean, I'm talking about it right now, like I didn't forget about it, like it's still a thing, right? Like, do I wish that didn't happen? Of course I do. Am I trying to give myself some compassion? Right. That's so so it's like this has to be it has to be tolerable, it has to be okay enough, right? It's not okay, but it's okay enough. And that's where that's where you kind of float around in this human experience of like, ugh, I'm okay enough, I guess.

Michaela 26:31

Yeah. It's funny though, like, you know, we talk a lot about things that like were problems in childhood and how they still affect us today. And like, I feel like a lot of the work that I have done and the things that I've learned and all of the stuff, but our physiological responses still give us away. And it's like, ah, it's still stuck in there somewhere, you know. Like, um, I had a client that like asked me a personal question and I like got in my head about it, like, and I was, and then like I wasn't really like anxious about what they uh had asked me. It wasn't even anything big, but like my body responded and my face got flushed, and he's like, Oh, I didn't mean to embarrass you. And I was like, Oh no, like I don't feel embarrassed, like emotionally, I feel fine, but like physically, I feel like that was like uh, oh god, someone's talking about me moment, and it threw it's like takes you off guard, and you're I'm you know, in you don't know, I don't normally like it's not normally about me here, you know. And so I was like, oh wait, okay. Yeah, so our bodies still give away, give us away sometimes, even though our brains are like, wait, why am I not? Why am I upset about this?

Laura 27:51

What's going on for me right now? Totally. We have that underlying physiological response way before our brain even catches up, like our frontal lobe, right? Way before our our like thinking brain, as we could call it, like catches up. We have um either like a gut, you know, like a gut reaction or like a skin flush, like you described, or like our eyes might water, or um, we might get goosebumps, or right, like we have all that stuff happening. We can't control that stuff, but what we can do is we can react to it intentionally and thoughtfully, right? Like you did, right? So you had this reaction that was your immediate, and then after the immediate reaction, you didn't go with that, you didn't stay with that immediate reaction, you chose a different reaction, which was to be like, oh, it's not a big deal. I just I don't know why I'm doing this, right?

Michaela 28:45

It's just it's just happening, I think it's just happening, it's a thing.

Laura 28:52

Yeah, it's so funny, and we try to be as congruent, so like we try to be as congruent as possible. And by congruent, I mean like aware and honest um about like what's happening for us in that moment. That's that can be really helpful. We try to learn how to be congruent, or I, you know, at least I do, like think about okay, where is this coming from? Um why am I reacting this way? And oh, that's based on this, and that's not actually what's happening right now, right? Like this situation is different than that. So if we can kind of identify it and recognize, oh, this isn't that. That's another thing I say all the time, like this isn't that. This isn't that. Yeah, this is totally different.

Michaela 29:40

I'm gonna steal that too.

Laura 29:42

This is for free, right?

Michaela 29:44

Like it's funny. So I can't steal it technically if it's for free. Shoot. Okay. That's true. Yeah, I'm just giving it away.

People Pleasing And The Ice Cream Spiral

Laura 29:52

You're giving it away. I'll take it. Okay, great. Uh yeah, I I think it's funny, you know, we have these like uh needs that never really go away, right? Like the need to be um liked or the need to be accepted, the need to be um understood, um, like the need to make other people feel good or like or not have other people be upset. Like we kind of we carry that stuff, and it often drives our patterns of behavior and our habits that like we don't even know about, like these habits and patterns that just kind of show up and they're not welcome. And we were like, stop it, stop doing that. We have to like learn how to be accepting of them, which is what we often do in therapy. But I remember this time I was thinking about when um we started talking about this is like interactions with other people that we've known for a long time. So I have this, so there's this couple that I've known since I was a little kid, and um, we went out to dinner with them the other day. And for the first time ever, like just by myself, like they're family friends. And so we always have like all the kids, they have three kids. I have three kids, like we've known each other for literally 30 years, and we are um they're friends with my parents, like we all we all know each other. So, like we're used to being in a group. So, like this is the first time we ever went out, just us, those couples. And at the end of dinner, they were like, Do you want to go get ice cream? I was like, Oh, where, you know, we're kind of talking about where, and then we started talking about something else before we left. And then we left, and we didn't get ice cream. I just like me and my boyfriend, we just left. Like, we just walked away. We were like, Okay, bye. And then when I got home, I was like, Oh my gosh, they asked us to go out for ice cream, like, and I didn't go, like I just ignored them, like they're gonna think I'm horrible, like what the heck, you know, they're not gonna like me, like they're gonna think I'm just this rude person. And it's like they've literally known me for like half my life. They if they thought that I was terrible, they would not have invited me to dinner. But it's like this one interaction is like so high stakes for me because it was like different than the normal interactions. It was like the first time we didn't, and so it's like I have this need to like make sure they know that I'm like a a good person, like make sure that they know they like me and they don't get mad at me or they don't think I'm bad or whatever. It's just funny how these things like just pop up. So, what did you do? Nothing. I mean, we just didn't get ice cream, I just went home, and I think about it all the time now.

Michaela 32:34

Have you talked to them since?

Laura 32:38

Not because I'm avoiding them. This was recent, first of all, not because I'm avoiding them, but like we just haven't connected, and so it's just I think it's never gonna get brought up. And then the next time I see them, this is what's gonna actually happen. I'm gonna say to myself, don't bring it up because it's over and it doesn't matter. So I'm gonna go in knowing that I'm not gonna bring it up. And then when we get into a situation where we're talking with them, I'm a hundred percent gonna bring it up. And I'm gonna be like, Yeah, so the last time that we went out, you guys said we should get ice cream, and I totally spaced it when we were walking away and I didn't go get ice cream with you guys, and I feel like a jerk, and this has been like plaguing me ever since. And they're gonna be like, Why is that still in your head? It doesn't matter at all, and it's gonna make everything even more embarrassing for me. That's what's gonna happen.

Michaela 33:25

See, but most of the time I feel like people like other people would just text them and be like, Oh yeah, we were gonna go get ice cream. I totally forgot. Sorry, catch you next time. Oh yeah, no, I'm an avoider.

Laura 33:40

I I I avoid things that make me uncomfortable.

Michaela 33:45

But so, like, and I don't know what's better or worse, right? Because like I I know that it's also not good to like constantly be checking in and like getting validation either. So, like, but but also like if you would have just texted them and be like, oops, sorry, they forgot about ice cream, then you wouldn't be thinking about it anymore.

Laura 34:04

You know what? You're absolutely right. And I think I'm gonna learn from this. I'm going to be less of an avoider. I actually have this is something that I'm working on in my life anyway, is being less of an avoider. Um, and we can refer back to our episode on procrastination for any tips that I might have given myself at that time. Um, but I I am going to try to do better because it definitely is not a healthy situation for me to just sit here and be and think about like how I messed up and ruminate on it. Like that doesn't make any sense. And I could avoid that by just saying, like I could avoid that negative consequence by just like reaching out right when I remembered and being like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I just noticed that we spaced out on ice cream.

Michaela 34:52

Yeah. And so I think it's like a fine line though, because you also don't want to like get into a habit of like apologizing for all the things and that you're worrying about. But like in that situation, it feels like it makes sense to be like, oops, we forgot about ice cream. Cause like, you don't know, maybe they drove to the plate, the place to get ice cream.

unknown 35:11

Oh my god.

Laura 35:12

You're introducing another layer of this problem.

Michaela 35:16

Sorry. But I'm just saying, like, you know, so like in this case, it's like there's a thing that it would have made sense to like when you remember to just like text them and say, Oh, we forgot, you know? Where like sometimes it's like, for example, like um if we if we're sitting and having like a lunch and learn thing, and I thought I said something stupid, right? I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I said that stupid thing. Like that may maybe isn't like necessary, then then I'm actually just trying to quell my anxiety by texting you and going, I'm so sorry, I hope I didn't hurt your feelings because I said XYZ. So, like that's that that's where I'm trying, I'm going with this. Like, like if I did said something I'm stupid, I'm trying to like make myself feel better because I'm to end text, that's not really necessarily healthy either. So yeah, I totally agree.

Laura 36:09

Seeking that validation, like we need balance. Life's about balance. I say this all the time too, but like we need to be able to kind of manage the middle um of the extreme. So, like when we one extreme is like you're saying, like, I just reach out to everybody all the time and apologize for my embarrassing behavior because it's in my head and like I'm making it somebody else's problem by doing that, and I'm asking them to regulate me, right? That's my that's what's happening. Um, and that's not necessary, I don't want to do that, but I don't want to overcorrect and literally never reach out to anybody when admit any mistakes ever. Mistakes ever, because that's not healthy. Um I want to try to be kind of congruent in the middle where I know that like my actions actually did have like it was like a relational context where it was like I said a thing, like we said a thing and then I didn't do a thing that I said, like that's more that's maybe a more appropriate time to reach out and say, like, hey, that's my bad thing. But not now, right?

Michaela 37:14

No, it's too late. But um, I mean, I think that like we were talking about this before we got on the call, and like I um had a like particularly stressful day, and I got a little bit like frustrated in a conversation that I was having, and then like a week later, I like lost sleep over it because I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that I like allowed myself to get dysregulated. Like, that's not a thing that I can do, right? Like, what I'm not I I can't be a human, I'm not allowed to get dysregulated, I'm not allowed to be firm with people. Like, they must think I'm a terrible person, or like, I can't believe I did that. Like, other people can manage their nervous system, but like I wasn't able to. And so, like, things happen, but things bother us, and it's hard to let go. But I got up out of my bed, I did my good sleep hygiene, I went and listened to some calming music, I read my book, and I went back to sleep when I could.

Compassion Repair And Closing Thoughts

Laura 38:16

That's good. And that's you know, we all get kicked out of our windows sometimes, and we just have to manage that. And we are normal people with normal problems. We're humans with nervous systems, we get dysregulated, and that's okay. It's just important to we have to give ourselves a little bit more compassion, right? Like by kind of saying, like, this doesn't make me like a horrible person, or this doesn't say what I think it says about me. It says that I was dysregulated. It doesn't say that I'm a total jerk or whatever, right? And it's important that we see ourselves with the same humanity that we give other people on a really regular basis, like, because that's part of our job is to see other people, recognize their stuff is coming up, and know that like that's just their stuff. And that's not about me, that's not personal, that's not the it doesn't say anything about them in terms of like the quality of human being that they are, or like how valuable they are or what they deserve. You know, they deserve to be treated with respect and dignity all the time, even when they make mistakes and even when their stuff comes up, and when our stuff comes up, we know we don't do our best. Yeah, so if somebody like yelled at me, I'm not immediately gonna be like, oh my gosh, like they're a total jerk. I'm gonna be like, yikes, they were out of their window.

Michaela 39:47

Yes, absolutely. And I think that we're just all humans, we're all beings having a human experience. I love that. That's really good. Did you just make that up? I did not. It comes it's something that it comes from uh yoga, actually, and something my uh the yoga uh person I follow says all the time. Um, it's really interesting the different like things that they say, and I'm like, oh, that like that so resonates with me, you know, where where they they really talk about how like um all of the things that we experience are like based on attachments to the world and the way that we view it. Um, so yeah. That's the second time you've got me today with your yoga sayings.

Speaker 2 40:36

I know they're really good. Yes, I know.

Michaela 40:39

What was the other one? Um, comparison is the thief of all joy.

Laura 40:43

Yes, and we're all beings having a human experience. That's so good. Okay, so I feel like where are we gonna leave it today? We are normal people with normal problems. Yes, it's acceptable to have problems.

Michaela 41:04

Who else? Um, I think that you know when we have moments where we don't act in in accordance with to the way that we would like to be acting, that we give ourselves grace and that we, you know, repair when rupture happens. I like that too.

Laura 41:29

I think those are good takeaways. Yeah, I do too. Okay. Well, thank you. Thank you for sharing and being vulnerable. This is sometimes, you know, getting personal is not always easy. So thank you for doing that.

Michaela 41:41

You too.

Rating Review And Credits

Laura 41:42

Thanks. Right, and thanks everybody for listening. Um, I really hope that you like our show, and we would love it if you could leave us a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. Follow the show and share it with your friends. This episode was written and produced by me, Laura Wood, and Michaela Beaver, our theme song is making ends meet by Thick as Thieves. And a special thanks to Core Self Benavieri Counseling and active healing psychiatric services for sponsoring our show.